Law is a profession of passed down wisdom. But that wisdom is often siloed to a golden few. The internet offers an opportunity to share this knowledge asynchronously & at scale. 

So in 2021 I interviewed 50 lawyers on the #HowILawyer podcast.

Here are 20 lessons I learned 🧵 👇

1. Career Paths Only Look Straight When You Look Backwards.

When you read LinkedIn bios top to bottom career trajectories can seem obvious. But the truth is that they are often unplanned, serendipitous, and the product of chance and risk taking.
 
https://twitter.com/JonahPerlin/status/1466789842688389122?s=20

2. Find Champions, Not Just Mentors. 

A mentor helps you find your way. A champion helps you pave the way and get across the finish line. 

Having a champion is a key to success. Being a champion is perhaps the greatest value you can add to our profession. 

CC: @cseguin03

3. Build a Community Not Just a Network.

Networking gets a bad rap. Bad 🍷, awkward convos, privilege.

But that is not the only way. Networking can be non-legal one-to-one community building. Just keep in touch. Have a Zoom. Get ☕.

CC: @CecereCarl https://twitter.com/CecereCarl/status/1444033571967143936?s=20

CC: @KSVesq 

https://twitter.com/KSVesq/status/1387429384483639298?s=20

4. One Moment or Conversation Can Change Your Career. Be Ready.

Every guest had an "aha" moment, connection, or "break" that changed their career. 

Be ready for your big break. Do the things you need to do to be open to take that chance or next step.  

cc: @megan_siddall

5. Take Small Bets.

Relatedly, the most successful lawyers are the ones who make small bets. Try a new practice. Meet a new person. Do something out of your comfort zone.

You can't increase your success numerator. You can increase the denominator of chances to make it happen.

6. Experience is the Greatest Teacher.

We may not have formal apprenticeships in US law, but so much of being a lawyer is learning by doing and learning by watching. 

Early in your career you won't have the experience. That's OK! Go out and get some.

https://twitter.com/JonahPerlin/status/1354510190964572160?s=20

7. Good Writers Stand Out.

I often tell my @GeorgetownLaw students that they may not have realized it but lawyers are professional writers. 

My guests have told me that the junior lawyers who are the best legal writers are the ones that stand out.

cc: @KannonShanmugam

8. Lawyers Can Actually Like or Even ❤️  What They Do.

They call it work for a reason. Not everyone loves their job. But a JD opens lots of 🚪 to different things. Finding something that you enjoy may takes trial and error, financial sacrifice, and time. But it is possible.

9. Do What You are Good At.

Common advice is do what you love. But what my guests reminded me is that you should do what you are good at (and it might not be specifically legal).

E.g. @heyitsalexsu learned he was great at cold calling which opened up a career in #legaltech

10. Find Your Personal Monopoly.

Everyone has skills and experience. But what are the *combination* of skills and experience that only you have. Knowing that and working there is a superpower. 

H/t @david_perell. 

Discussed more on @TexAppLawPod 
🎧 👇 https://twitter.com/jodyssanders/status/1458798835749244935?s=20

11. Mistakes Happen. 

I always ask guests for advice. Several reminded me that "mistakes happen." We are not judged for making them but rather how we respond. 

Don't hide. Don't ignore. Don't try to duct tape it. Tell the supervisor or client and work together to solve it.

12. Embrace Breadth, Then Specialize.

Lawyers can do many different things but too often they only do what they know or what they *think* lawyers do. The pod features TONS of different types of lawyers. Learn first. Specialize second. 

Check out howilawyer.com

13. Build an Audience.

The sheer size of the internet is hard to grasp. Even a very niche interest or practice can be quite large globally. Start building an audience now and connecting to others in your sphere. And do it by helping, not yelling.

CC: @davidlat, @mjs_DC

14. Social Media is a Professional Tool.

Lawyers function in community with other lawyers (see above) and social media is a powerful tool for finding that connection. It can be fun too. 

CC: Dean @RMFifthCircuit, #appellatetwitter

15. Own The Case.

This one is for junior lawyers.  

You may not have the expertise yet but you be the world's greatest expert on a particular document or concept.

Don't just do the task, think about how it fits. That is the way to stand out.

CC: @nicholasjboyle, @BrantMartin5

16. The Job You Have in Ten Years May Not Exist Today

One of the fascinating parts of law is that it responds to the needs of TODAY. As things change so does law. Gain skills, keep learning, and be ready for what is to come.

CC: @iampaulgrewal, @MHBlumenstein, @GTeninbaum

17. The Best Lawyers are Translators.

So much of being an effective lawyer is interacting with non-lawyers or lawyers in other practice areas. Being able to translate (without always saying NO) is an essential skill.

CC: @StaggAndrea, @SuchiPahi, @avtrask

18. Be Curious.

One of the unforgotten superpowers of the practice of law is curiosity. Each client, each case, and each task are a learning opportunity and the more open you are to really learn it, the more successful you can be.

cc: @ejleelaw

19. Lawyers Can Be Change Makers.

So much of law school is about skill and knowledge acquisition. In that process it is easy to forget that lawyers can be some of the world's most powerful change makers. Don't forget it.

CC: @MooreWright05, @AppellateProj, @DCJusticeLab

20. Learn from Others, But Their Path Need Not Be Yours.

Lawyers love to tell their story. The risk of e-mailing a senior lawyer to chat is ZERO. Make connections!

CC: @BrianHPotts

But their advice is based on their experience. Listen but take your own path.

CC: @piaowens

If you enjoyed this thread I hope you'll consider subscribing to the #HowILawyer podcast 

🍎 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-lawyer-podcast-with-jonah-perlin/id1546577526
🎧 https://open.spotify.com/show/6o8JhKlXPSWjiRGP7938X6?si=afd42618665745e3
🌐 howilawyer.com

And if you are already a listener: 

Thank You For Listening!

Please consider leaving a review on iTunes (link above) and 👍 & RT the first Tweet in the thread.

20 Lessons from Interviewing 50 Lawyers

First day for many summer interns and summer associates! 

That means I get to share one of my favorite and most impactful pieces of advice.

Want to know the highest value, low-cost way to get more from the experience? Post-It Notes. 

Yes, seriously, Post-It Notes. 

Here’s why:

The most important parts of an internship are gaining experiences, learning about what you like and dislike, and completing projects that teach you or expose you to new skills. The problem is that it is challenging in the moment to identify them and even harder to remember them.

Plus when you get to an interview for your next job and you inevitably get the question: "How was the summer doing X" you have nothing meaningful to say. That should be the easiest and most valuable question!

So why post-its? 

Keep a stack with you all summer at your desk wherever you are working. Having them in front of you will be a trigger to reflect on what you are doing, what you are learning, and any particularly cool or interesting experiences AS THESE MOMENTS HAPPEN.

When that happens, just jot a super quick note down and make a pile over the course of the summer. At the end of the summer or pre-interviews you can flip through the notes and reflect on opportunities gained and lessons learned. I promise it will be worth it!

Post-It Notes

Last week I presented to 150+ law professors on the topic of Public Engagement.

My core message was if you are a law professor (or lawyer or even law student) to start creating public facing content!

You have something to add to the conversation.

Here’s a Playbook for How:

1. Find Your Purpose and Audience

What do you know about that can help others? Who asks you for advice?

If you are already creating content or have relevant experiences you should already know who your avatar audience is and how you can help.

+ Repurpose what you already have!

2. Start Posting Before You are Ready.

It’s easy to let the imposter syndrome set in and say either (a) I don’t know enough or (b) I don’t know how to create this content.

But the only way to learn is to start. The first 50 won’t be great, so get them out of the way FAST.

3. Learn from Your Audience.

Once you start putting content out in the world you’ll start getting feedback on what resonates and you can refine and learn from others in your niche.

If others create content in your area, that is great. It means there is an audience and community

4. The Audience on the Internet is Basically Unlimited.

When you start any creative online project (Twitter, Podcast) it will take time for people to discover you. That’s great! It gives you time to figure it out. Just find your tiny niche then follow others and join the convo.

5. Make it Relational.

Creating content from your computer shouldn’t be a one-way post and then disappear approach.

Interact in whatever way you can with your audience and other creators. Join a conversation. And then get to know others interested in what you are. It’s amazing!

6. Focus on Leading Indicators Not Lagging Indicators.

Don’t start with analytics goals of how many people like a post or subscribe to a YouTube channel. You can’t control that. Instead set a goal you can control.

My example: 50 podcast episodes in year one made me continue!

7. Focus on Moments Not Monuments.

Creating in public is not about perfection. A book I read recently talked about articles as “moments not monuments.” That is even more true in public content creation.

Be part of the conversation. You have something to add to the moment!

8. Don’t Focus on Software or Gear.

I started a podcast that now has 200K downloads with a relatively cheap microphone and free software. I LOVE technology and finding the best thing for a project but don’t let it get in the way of starting. You can always scale up.

9. Dream Big.

Start with the question: what transformation can I assist with if I had three years, unlimited time, and unlimited followers. Then scale down accordingly.

You’ll gain an audience (dare I say fans) over time but you don’t need them there to start creating!

10. Be Authentically You.

Unlike a law review article or a legal brief you can and should bring your whole self to public content creation (if you want). People are following YOU not just your content.

Plus it’s more fun to talk about what matters to you and why!

11. Find Your True Followers and True Friends.

If you put content out your followers will find it eventually. People notice. Don’t focus on total followers, focus on engaged fans.

Then make friendships with folks you find connection with. Pocket friends are real friends.

12. Don’t Worry About Saying the Same Thing Twice.

Public content has value beyond the virality cycle. Keep posting the same kinds of things or even reposting. Audiences evolve and they won’t have seen it or need reminding! Plus the depth will grow over time as you create!

13. Embrace a Spirit of Play.

The joy of public content creation is that it’s relatively low stakes. You won’t be judged at the end of you career based on one tweet or podcast episode. So take solace in it and enjoy it.

14. Try One Public Facing Project or Platform at a Time.

Especially now it feels like you need to do it all which is a recipe for failure. Focus on one creative project or network at a time. When ready bring followers with you.

For me: Twitter → Podcast → Coming Soon 👀

15. Just Start.

The internet age is a unique moment that we can share for free, asynchronously, and at scale.

Start by listening but as soon as possible add your voice. We need you and want you in the conversation.

PLUS I have learned you gain so much more than you give!

16. Last But Not Least: Just Share.

If you don’t bring your expertise and creative spirit to the world no one will find it. So get comfortable sharing and encouraging folks to join you on your journey.

Here’s mine:

I am:

• a husband & dad
• #legalwriting professor @GeorgetownLaw
• host of the #HowILawyer podcast where I interview lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well
• committed to making the legal profession more diverse, more open, and stronger.

If you want to hear more you can follow me here, over on LI, or at howilawyer.Substack.com or wherever you listen to podcasts (just search How I Lawyer)

I hope you’ll join me and create some public content soon!

The Power of Public Engagement for Law Professionals

Do you really need to do it all?

Every year students ask me the following question: do I need to do [fill in the blank]?

The blank is different for every student. Some examples:
• Journal Write On
• Moot Court
• Clinic

Here’s my answer:

Many folks come to law school having done everything and done everything well their whole lives. I don’t yet have teenagers but I hear the “you must do EVERYTHING” syndrome starts really, really early.

And so it is no surprise that folks come to law school with the same mindset.

On top of that, there is a view that if you miss something you are closing the 🚪 to certain jobs. E.g., No journal = no clerkship. No moot court = no litigation job.

But in my experience as a law student, law clerk, lawyer, and now law professor, this is simply not accurate.

It is true that failure to do something might make you ineligible for a particular position.

E.g. a judge might say “I only hire folks on Journal” but that does not mean that failure to do journal will CATEGORICALLY eliminate clerking.

Instead it’s about building a package.

What do I mean by a package?

Think about your resume as a set of plus factors. Things that make you more experienced, more interesting, and more well rounded. Doing nothing but class is a pretty one dimensional package.

But by that same token doing everything is not necessary.

In fact, while doing too much makes for a multi-dimensional package, if you don’t like doing those things or don’t leave time to do them all well, the quantity won’t make up for the lack of quality in each.

Choosing which things to pursue is HARD. But remember it is a choice.

How do you pick? My view (others might disagree) is to ask:

am I doing things that build a compelling package for the jobs I might want?

am I doing things that genuinely interest me?

am I doing things that give me experience:?

am I doing what I have bandwidth to do well?

For some answering these questions might still lead to doing everything but for many if not most some choices need to be made.

And sometimes the choice is made for you by applying to a bunch of things and being accepted by a few. And that’s OK too.

It’s all a process.

OK Professor, but should I do X?

I don’t know. How does it fit into the professional package you are putting together and how does your bandwidth look.

Curious what others think too.

Do you really need to do it all?

Had a fantastic time earlier this week sharing some lessons from #HowILawyer interviews with over 120 lawyers with UNLV’s Virtual Lawyering Bootcamp

Here’s 6 takeaways (with thanks to @writedotlaw for the summary):

https://twitter.com/jonahperlin/status/1661922826125803523?s=46&t=F9Tqy7WkaNb5hZ_S9rbL6A

1️⃣We All Have a Story.

It's easy to forget that we all "have a story." We all have a path before our jobs, outside of our jobs—and those stories are often treated as tangential. But not so. Our stories are important. And we can learn a lot from every one.

2️⃣Take Small Bets & Mistakes Happen

You must "be willing to try and fail miserably." We all make mistakes. Even our mentors and our heroes and the fancy lawyers in the news. Making mistakes is normal. It's how you deal with them that matters: Own them, learn from them, move on.

3️⃣ Audacity is Worth It!

"Set audacious goals. Who cares if you only get 60% of the way there?" You'll still accomplish incredible things. I came up with the idea for the podcast during the pandemic as a way to have meaningful conversations with lawyers and learn from them.

It all started by taking a risk, tapping into my passion, and being willing to push himself into a new world I knew nothing about—with no guarantees. Totally worth it.

4️⃣Careers Make Sense in Reverse.

We don't need to have it all figured out. "We can't know what point might change our lives" and our professional trajectory. It's ok to be open to new opportunities and not have your entire career set in stone.

5️⃣ Well-being Matters!

Its all of our jobs to support one another as much as we can. If you see someone struggling "say something at the moment." The people that have it all figured out from the outside are often still struggling. Focus on your mental health and support others.

6️⃣ “Optimize for serendipity"—get experience, have a growth mindset, meet people. And "do not feel like you must take advice just because it was given to you."

Your choices are your own!

Thanks again for the summary (edited slightly here) @writedotlaw! I look forward to continue learning from lawyer stories and sharing these lessons with anyone who will listen.

Have a great weekend pocket friends!

Lessons from #HowILawyer Interviews

Anyone who follows me on social media knows that one of my primary goals is to demystify the legal profession in order to make it more transparent, welcoming, and diverse.

I am therefore excited to share my collaboration with @LateralHub on its Summer Associate Hub:

Summer Associate Hub is a brand-new free content and resource hub to help law students with the BigLaw 2L Summer Associate recruiting.

The site includes easy, digestible, and engaging content to help students learn about BigLaw practice areas .

This includes easy video overviews, interactive exercises, podcast episodes (including from my #HowILawyer Podcast), short blog posts, and more. SA Hub will also offer live programs with BigLaw firms this spring/summer & content from @hotshotlegal & @praktio & others.

Students can sign up for the Summer Associate Hub Newsletter for daily content/updates throughout the summer:
https://summerassociatehub.com/get-updated/

And students can earn free stuff for referring your classmates! $5 Starbucks gift card for referring 5 friends... and more!

Summer Associate Hub for Law Students

💼 The Importance of Non-Legal Skills & Experiences to the Life of a Lawyer:

One of my favorite realizations from 110+ How I Lawyer interviews is how important the skills and experiences gained prior to law school are to finding a successful legal career.

To be fair this may go against my professional interest. After all, I teach legal skills for a living. And don’t get me wrong. These skills are extremely important. Without them success is hard to come by.

BUT one thing I hear time and again is how important pre-law skills and experiences can be.

This could be knowledge of an industry.

It could be knowledge about a particular community or group.

It could be a skill that translates well too law but is hard to learn in law school (technology, sales, customer service, ability to learn fast).

The reality is that legal skills are necessary but rarely sufficient. And for new lawyers or summer interns think of this as a secret value add. You may not yet have legal experience but your other skills and interests and experiences can and should be leveraged.

TL;dr Even at the beginning of your career you bring more to the table than you think!

Value of Non-Legal Skills for Lawyers

Writing is thinking so see how it writes.

One challenge I regularly see in student writing AND my own writing projects is believing that if I can figure it out in my head the first draft should be perfect (or close to it). That’s an unreasonable expectation.

Don’t get me wrong, deep thinking leads to stronger writing.

But writing is also an exercise in thinking. In my own work I have found I need structure to start but I only see the shortcomings and breakthroughs when I try to put into something on paper and get out of my head.

The hard part is this takes more time. The cool part about this approach is it should lower the stakes of Draft 0. That one’s for you. The next draft is for the audience.

Trying to commit to this approach in my own writing projects and maybe you’ll do the same.

The Process of Writing: Thinking, Structure, and Exercise.

I had coffee with a stellar former student yesterday who asked a great question:

"I know it’s important to keep in touch with mentors & former supervisors but how do you recommend doing that?"

Here was my answer:

1. Don’t stress about quantity. Even checking in once or twice a year is plenty. I keep a birthday calendar for friends and professional contacts and always try to check in around their birthday. It’s an easy natural reason to connect and people are often (pleasantly) surprised.

2. Share good news and ask them questions. If something great happens, share it. Personal or professional. And if you are deciding whether to apply for a new job or are faced with a new task just ask! People want to be helpful even if its been awhile.

3. Share an interesting piece of content. If a news article or TV show or podcast episode makes you think of someone, share it with them!

4. Don’t be afraid to reach out if it’s been a while. So what if it’s been two years! Pandemic happened. Life happened. Decide to have one or two catch up coffees a month and thats 12-24 extra connections a year. Plus I find these experiences to be so fulfilling!

5. What would I avoid? Don’t worry about the quarterly clockwork checkin. Don’t worry about needing a specific ask. Don’t make it hard to meet (doesn't have to be lunch -- I love an afternoon coffee or walk when I am least productive anyway).

TL;dr. Keeping in touch with professional contacts, mentors, and bosses is not just strategic it’s SO enjoyable as well.

Keeping in Touch with Mentors: A Practical Guide

🌀 Spiral Learning

Lawyers are constantly learning new topics & tasks. In law school we try to teach "how to think like a lawyer" but also "how to learn like a lawyer."

One of my favorite learning techniques is sometimes called "spiral learning":

Spiralling is a strategy where you learn the same concept multiple times but each time learn it at greater depth/complexity.

For law students this means learning the same concept multiple times:

• Reading
• Class
• Post-Class
• Outlining
• Practice Exams
• Real Exams

Each time you encounter the material you are more ready to understand it and make deeper connections.

This a massive shift for many students who are used to learning the first time with ease by cramming.

But when they get to law school that strategy no longer works.

Embrace it.

The spiral method should lower the stress of each step in the learning process. Early on you are learning to set yourself up for learning and eventual mastery. If something doesn't make sense the first time that is OK. Create materials to help next round.

And if its getting late in the process, instead of cramming really try to practice using the knowledge (by, for example, taking practice exams) so you can quickly identify what you know and don't know.

Plus spiraling is effective practicing lawyers too!

Lawyers often face new tasks, new practice areas, new courts. Clients pay for expertise BUT you can only get expertise by getting in early reps BEFORE you have expertise. This isn't that different than learning a subject for a law school exam.

Spiraling can be uncomfortable.

tYou think: I am smart so I should be able to do this great the 1st time. But even the best can't.

Make the goal "getting reps" and "seeing the same topic/task in new ways" instead of perfection & success will come with less stress!